Custom Search
Top Stories
Go to Site Index See "Top Stories" main page
COMMENTARY · 24th November 2011
Terrace Daily News
Mayor Dave Pernarowski offered a thank you to the citizens of Terrace. One commenter asked a tonque and cheek question on Fluoride being added to the City water.

This has triggered an avalanche of comments, anonymous and not, all on fluoride, nothing to do with the Mayors writing.

So in the interest of those wishing to participate, here is where you might consider adding your thoughts.

And in keeping with this, we have deleted the comments from the Mayors thank-you and posted them below. For entertainment purposes only.

Flouride
By S. P. Martini
2 days ago · Congratulations Dave.

But I do have a question ...

How much longer will the City of Terrace continue to poison it's citizens ?

-Despite damning evidence on fluoride toxicity, bureaucracies and multinationals continue to pollute our drinking water and mess with our physical and mental health.

-Water fluoridation was believed to reduce children's tooth decay, but a data comparison of fluoridated and unfluoridated countries refuted this claim.

-Both the Germans and the Russians added sodium fluoride to the drinking water of prisoners of war to make them stupid and docile.

-Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain and will thus make him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him.

"I say this in all earnestness and sincerity of a scientist who has spent nearly 20 years research into the chemistry, bio-chemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorine: any person who drinks artificially fluorinated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person, mentally or physically." - CHARLES E. PERKINS, Chemist, October 2, 1954.


That explains it!
By Mr. Peters
Today • Holy crap, that explains it. Now I know why Dave won the election, the fluoridation of our water has made people in Terrace stupid and easily fooled. I just want to thank you for bring this to our attention. • email the commentor • edit • del

What part of "The Brain."
By Skep Dic
Yesterday · I have spent considerable time googling Charles E. Perkins and have yet to find a single source which will name the "certain area" of the brain being poisoned. Not very good science!

Maybe you want everyone's teeth to look British, but I kind of like not looking at yellow, broken brown teeth in every person I see.

Re: What part of "The Brain."
By Sheldon Davidson
Yesterday · Googling "Charles E. Perkins" +Fluoride gives me 36,700 results

A little bit of research shows that the part of the brain that is effected is the Pineal Gland.

Its not the municipal governments job to look after my oral hygiene. When I turn on the water I expect H2O. Instead I get heavy metals that are more toxic than lead (Pb).

Drink rat poison, it's good for your teeth.
23 Nov 2011
S. P. Martini Esq.

Bad teeth on the britsh .. That's a stereotype created by television. Someone has been watching too much Monty Python and/or Family Guy. I suppose you believe that all black people like chicken and watermelon as well?

Please do your own research... it would not take much "google-fu" to learn that the part of the brain Perkin's is likely referring to is the "penial gland". ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland )

Ingesting small amounts of rat-poison is not going to benefit your teeth .. and although one might be tempted to rely on more recent and credible information .. ( http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/health-hazards-to-know-about/where-the-yellow-went ) .. you are welcome to believe Nazi-influenced government propaganda from the 50's all you like. Enjoy it best with a large glass of municipal water.

"Even a goddamn werewolf is entitled to legal counsel… I didn’t dare turn the creep down. He might have picked up a letter-opener and gone after my pineal gland.” - Oscar Zeta Acosta


Knowledge-Not suitable for all audiences/Ignorance is bliss.
S. P. Martini Esq.
If you really want to get deep .. Google "IG Farben"

try mixing and matching some interesting keywords ..
+fluoride
+heroin
+CIA
+war crimes


But don't say I didn't warn you.

If reading isn't your forte, here is the "dumbed" explanation of why small amounts of toxic chemicals should not be unquestionably consumed daily by the public:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3ARhMPVu-A

They should put that on the C.B.c , lol !

Paris Hilton says Fluoride tastes good
Concerned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp3wJjzrrhE

http://pissedoffcabbie.blogspot.com/2007/06/must-be-fluoride.html


Absolute proof.
S. P. Martini Esq.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saZAwB9P2iQ


Pineal Gland, eh?
Skep Dic

Funny, googling Pineal Gland and Charles E. Perkins has not found a single result where Charles himself names this gland. There are scores of other websites on mostly conspiracy nut websites saying this is the area, but nothing directly attributable to Charles. In fact, googling Pineal Gland on its own gives scores of conspiracy of the week web results.

The pineal gland regulates sleep patterns, it has nothing to do with creativity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland#Function

There also isn't any evidence Charles E Perkins (Supposedly a Chemist, I'd rather hear from a doctor) ever even existed.

http://www.sonic.net/kryptox/history/perkins.htm

So, we're supposed to trust a source from a Chemist who may never have existed but is often quoted by crackpots who in turn provide the name of a part of the brain supposedly affected, which the chemist somehow forgot.

That's some good science!


Why not birth control in the water too?
Maggie Jo
Okay...seriously people.

How hard is it to brush one's teeth with paste that has flouride in it. There really is no reason for so many of us to be walking around with rotting "yellow, broken brown teeth".

How lazy have we become that we rely on the City's water supply to "kind'a brush" our teeth for us as a Plan B when we're too lazy to do it ourselves?!? Do we want the City to chew our food for us too before we eat it?! Perhaps they can come and pull post-toilet hygiene patrol for us as well since we're so lazy.

It kind'a sets a precedent that we don't have to pull normal acts of hygiene on our own as we expect "others" will step in to do that for us; hence the City forcing us to drink flouride water from our taps, as they don't trust their own City residents (their colleagues, their neighbors, their paper boy) to tend to our own oral care! That's gotta be an offense in itself, don't you think?

I say the word "force" because a # of residents can't afford yet another bill to register for bottled water. So, yes...it's forced upon us..cuz where else will we get water from? (Anyone remember the scandal of the "forced" sterilizations in the assylums?)

So the City portrays its residents as being so lazy that they feel they have to be responsible for us in our own personal hygiene habits too?!

Uh...I think that's interference where the City has no right putting their nose into. The entire city should not be held hostage from those who choose not to take minutes outta their day to brush their own teeth! They get cavities and rotting teeth? Well, that's what happens when you're lazy with your hygiene. THEY can deal with their own personal dental bills. It's not the rest of the City's problem, but apparently the City thinks otherwise with this City-wide flouride treatment (just in case a percentage of us don't know how to use a simple toothbrush).

What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's own actions. IE; STOP feeding babies Coca Cola in a baby bottle! Splurge now and then and buy cheap toothbrushes at wholesale price. Just do somefin' to act as a responsible person; lest the City feel they need to take even further action.

Might as well just put birth control into our water system as well then. (See how ridiculous that sounds?)

Apparently, we all have the legal right to abort babies in the womb...we all have legal right to free speech, we all have legal rights..yadda yadda yadda. So, why don't we have the legal right to go to our kitchen taps to drink water without flouride being forced upon us?

Not getting it. (I bet there could be a precedent-setting law suit that just might be successful here.)


Don't like it, then don't drink it
Tim
If you are so concerned about the water then don't drink it. Chemically fluoride helps to strengthen teeth, got to look at the net benefit over the risk.

I'm so sick of people whining about fluoride in the water.
Ms.
Comment by B Barich on 18th April 2012
It will become increasingly harder for the politicos to ignore the issue — as of Jan. 1, 2013, changes to Ontario’s Safe Drinking Water Act will make municipally elected officials legally responsible for negligence related to municipal water systems. If half the scary stuff the critics are saying is true, then I foresee future lawsuits in our increasingly litigious society. The fluoride contrarians like to point out that during the era when the stuff first entered our homes via the plumbing, advertisers were also advising us that “more doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette.”
This is an exerpt from the Winsor paper
If you check the Calgary council meeting submissions , two MD's and an engineering professor have good explanations. Calgary managed to get this poison out of their water. Dr. Beck states that it violates the code of medical ethics since it is a drug (Supreme Court of Canada calls it medication ) administered w/o consent, w/o controlled dosage, not monitored for effects on the individual.
Albert Schatz, Nobel Laureate for the discovery of streptomycin " Fluoridation is the greatest fraud that has ever been perpetrated and it has been perpetrated on more people than any other fraud has".
Dr. Hardy Limeback , head of preventative dentistry U of T apologised for poisoning people stated" In my opinion the evidence that fluoridation is more harmful than beneficial is now overwhelming and policy makers who avoid thoroughly reviewing recent data before introducing new fluoridation schemes do so at risk of future litigation"
L. Alesen Pres. California medical assoc. " no physician would hand a patient a bottle filled with a dangerous drug with instructions to take as much or little of it as he wished"
Before 1945 the ADA and USpublic health were adamantly against adding fluoride to drinking water . By 1950 they changed their minds, even when 3 studies showed no benefit. It is interesting that in 1947 the Chief Councel of ALCOA became head of USPHS( public health). ALCOA was the biggest producer of fluoride waste. The head of ALCOA provided strong incentives to ADA to support fluoridation. eg grants to researchers who could show that fluoride is beneficial. The engineer from Calgary gives a good account of how the stats and studies work.
This is some of the politics.-Save money and make money for industry selling wastes that they aren't allowed to dump into the environment directly.
I have read several comment by ppl such as Ralph Nader and other on how discussion on the topic by opponents is purposely stiffled and ignored.
Today EPA scientists refuse to drink fluoridated water.
John Colquhoun, form head of NZ Dental program, formerly pro is now strongly anti-fluoridation.
The head of an often quoted UK study strongly chastised those who were using their study to promote fluoridation
Europe is 98% unfluoridated.
Terrace is on the list of Canadian cities that still pollutes it DW with fluoride
Freethinkers are dangerous
Comment by Bing Crosby on 28th November 2011
Sorry Skep Dic, but your ability to cut and paste* has not convinced me that rat poison is the answer to my dental woes ..

In fact, I grew up in a rural area and did not have the luxury of fluorinated water, so instead my mother taught me how to brush my teeth (how old-fashioned right?)... and guess what ? I have never had a cavity.

------

* PS... next time... don't forget the titles ;)
Something to think about
Comment by Karen on 28th November 2011
I am the offspring of parents who did not possess the good teeth gene, nor did their parents. I have never had a cavity (at half a century old) and my five siblings are as or almost as lucky.

My family did not grow up where flouridated water was accessible but we were fed flouride drops in our drinks at a very young age - before our permanent teeth were fully formed. I am not a frequent visitor to the dentist, my hygiene is like anyone elses and I probably indulge in sweets a little too often.

Drinking fouridated water probably does help on a mildly surface level but from my experience the crucial time is to get the treatment to youngsters at a time when it will do them the most good - while their bodies are still developing.

Flouride can be toxic in large quantities and I would not doubt that some people react worse than others to the drug, but I am extremelly thankful for the results that I chalk up to a this drug being used in the best way possible on me.
re: Descartes
Comment by Herpda Derp on 28th November 2011
Flat earth .. uhmm .. ok then ..

Who the hell said anything about Descartes and fluoride ?

They were talking about the significance of the pineal gland ..

Fluoridated water was not a problem in the 1600s ..

But interesting that you choose the name 'flat earth'

Now we all know the earth is round, rather than flat .. but there was a time and a place where people thought the idea of a round earth was ludicrous.

So, now we got foolish people who think toxic heavy metals bel0ng in the water because it is good for teeth .. and that anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy conspiracy theorist.
Re: "Points" for Sheldon
Comment by Sheldon Davidson on 27th November 2011
Im sorry, skepdic, but please point out where exactly I quoted from rense.com?

Please point out where I am trying to sell books and please point out where I am citing people who are trying to sell books.



You're the one quoting from http://kidshealth.org/kid/talk/qa/fluoride.html

That does NOT look like a scientific paper. In my mind, your research from kidshealth.org discredits everything you have said. kidshealth.org is also trying to get money from people as well.

If you haven't noticed, your foot is in your mouth right now.

http://www.healthyteeth.org ? Really? Give me a break. This is not a credible site by any means. They give no sources as to where they get their information.

Please check your own sources before you fail to accurately determine what my credible sources are.

I urge anyone reading this who as any doubt in their mind about this debate to go to these sites themselves and decide if they are credible or if they contain any scientific studies at all. I think you will find that they do not.

I'm insulted that you would label me as a conspiracy theorist.

By the WHOs own statistics oral hygiene health has been on the decline in all areas of the world since the 1930s - including fluoridated and non fluoridated areas.

It is your sources that are not credible. Blindly believing sites like kidshealth.com where they do not site their sources shows that you are easily convinced; one of the ill effects of consumption of fluoride.

Descartes
Comment by flat earth on 26th November 2011
I doubt that René Descartes, who died in 1650, an era in which the benefits of bleeding a patient went unquestioned even by the most advanced medical authorities, is the final authority on fluoride, despite his historical scientific importance. Even he wouldn't, I suggest, insist that our scientific progress be frozen with his death.
City of Terrace voicemail comment line.
Comment by Maggie Jo on 26th November 2011
Let's make sure the City of Terrace hears us (just in case they don't read this online rant).

The City's Comment line is 250 638 4778

Simply leave a message for them to peruse.

Let's not maintain the reputation we Canadians have for being lazy in protesting form. Call the comment line and fill up their voicemails with all of our opinions - whether for or against flouride treatment in our water supply. We all have a democratic voice. Let's use it!
"Points" for Sheldon
Comment by Skep Dic on 26th November 2011
Sheldon, I sympathise with your plight in championing this cause, perhaps you have other conspiracy based causes you champion as well.

There is no winning or losing in this discussion. If the sources you choose to trust are places like Rense, over the WHO, Stanford University, the CDC, etc... there probably is no source you would trust other than sites like Rense. I am not in fact debating with you or your cohorts, I'm showing the easy to find fallacies in your conspiracy claims to cast a light on the dark shadow of ignorance and hopefully preventing its spread to others.

For example, Dr. Emanuel H. Bronner Anon cited earlier.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/904/why-the-weird-religious-ravings-on-dr-bronners-soap

Notable quotes from the above url,

"Bronner's birth control method involves using lemon juice and Vaseline as a spermicide"

"He's not an MD or strictly speaking a rabbi, but claims he's got the equivalent of a PhD in chemistry"

Whoever is mentoring you in pseudo science and conspiracy causes is not doing you a favour.

Why mire yourself in the ravings of people who only want to sell you books, movies, shirts, vitamins, water, plans, etc... when you could study actual knowledge, which may not be as dramatic or easy to understand, but every bit as fulfilling for free?

At the table of knowledge, you are effectively paying to sit on the floor by the garbage can eating scraps, crumbs and garbage, marveling how good it tastes when you could actually be sitting at the table eating food with everyone else for free.
I keep practicing the technique to no avail...
Comment by Maggie Jo on 26th November 2011
I keep practicing drinking tap water to see if any water actually passes over my teeth on the way down to my belly.

Nope. Just right over my tongue straight into my stomach with no contact with teeth at all. But as Skep Dic states: my body's cells will absorb all the flouride to bring back up to my mouth to strengthen my enamel.

Hmmmm... And where ELSE is my body's cells sending this flouride to?
Re: CDC and conspiracies!
Comment by Sheldon Davidson on 26th November 2011
Every single one of your points has already been shot down.

I have looked at both sides of the debate and after much research I've come to the overwhelming conclusion that fluoride is not safe in any amount.

By pointing out local customs of other countries you are side-tracking and confusing the issue.

Sodium Fluoride is banned in many countries around the world, and the reason is because of health concerns. It's quite simple to see.

You are now trying to label those who are opposed to heavy metals in drinking water as conspiracy theorists. It has become obvious that you are grasping for strings in this debate.

Perhaps if there was a second source of water and we could choose to have fluorinated water or non-fluorinated water piped into our homes then maybe this wouldn't be such a big deal. Alas, we do not have a choice - all city water in Terrace has been fluorinated.



Conclusion: Sodium Fluoride in drinking water is a barbaric dangerous practice and should be banned in all sources of municipal water supplies.

There is absolutely no reason to add fluoride to drinking water as health benefit studies (over all) have proved inconclusive.

The supposed health benefit wouldn't apply to the whole populous anyway even if there were a health benefit.

How fluoride works -- for Maggie Jo
Comment by Skep Dic on 26th November 2011
Fluoride works both topically, and systemic if ingested.

http://fluorideinfo.org/FAQ.html#anchor6

"Topical fluorides strengthen teeth already present in the mouth. Fluoride is incorporated into the surface of teeth making them more decay-resistant. Fluoridated drinking water probably has a topical effect as well as a systemic effect. Systemic fluorides can give topical protection because ingested fluoride is present in saliva, which continually bathes the teeth. Fluoride is incorporated into the tooth surface to prevent decay. Fluoride also becomes incorporated into dental plaque and facilitates further remineralization. It reduces the solubility of tooth enamel in acid. It reduces the ability of plaque organisms to produce acid. Adults may also benefit from fluoridation, particularly those with receding gums, which expose the tooth roots that are particularly susceptible to decay. In addition to reducing tooth decay, water fluoridation prevents needless infection, pain, suffering and loss of teeth; improves the quality of life; and saves vast sums of money in dental treatment costs."

http://kidshealth.org/kid/talk/qa/fluoride.html

"Just how effective is fluoridated water? Thanks to it, dentists say half of kids between 5 and 17 have never had a cavity in their permanent teeth. We hope you're one of them!"

http://www.healthyteeth.org/prevention/fluoride.html

"Fluoride that is absorbed by your body is used by the cells that build your teeth to make stronger enamel. Topical fluoride - fluoride that is applied to the outside of the enamel - makes the crystals that form enamel more durable. Tooth enamel crystals that have fluoride are much more resistant to acid. They are less likely to breakdown and cause the tooth surface to become porous."

Of course, I have my doubts you will believe the science even if it's laid out in front of you. The biggest conspiracies we encounter in our lives are from people who wish to profit from ignorance through fear so they can peddle books, hats, vitamins, "alternative" science, shares, etc...
Give me a break Skep Dic...
Comment by Maggie Jo on 26th November 2011
Do you REALLY think the mentally ill and impoverished are most consciously swishing the City's flouride water in between their teeth for 30-60 seconds at a time 3x/day as a Plan B to using a toothbrush?!

I highly doubt that!

Open the mouth. Past the gums. Look out tummy. Here it comes!

(No swishing of the flouride water involved to benefit one's teeth at all ! So again...why the flouride added into our water system?!)
CDC and conspiracies!
Comment by Skep Dic on 26th November 2011
I love how some fluoride conspiracists can denounce a source while other flouride conspiracists can cite that same source when it agrees with them.

http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/safety/infant_formula.htm

I found the above link from another site decrying fluoride in water. It says:

"Recent evidence suggests that mixing powdered or liquid infant formula concentrate with fluoridated water on a regular basis may increase the chance of a child developing the faint, white markings of very mild or mild enamel fluorosis. "

Uh oh, since the CDC is agreeing that excess fluoride can cause fluorosis, and "getting old" says the CDC is run by the US government and is covering up the fluoride conspiracy, this must mean that people against adding fluoride in water are actually part of a wider US-borne conspiracy to poison our precious bodily fluids by removing fluoride!

As for some European countries banning fluoride (not really banned since it's still readily available in toothpaste and their table salt), this doesn't prove anything. You can buy soiled panties from vending machines in some parts of Japan. German culture believes opening a window and allowing fresh air in can make you sick (search Google for es zieht). Norwegian whale hunts are barbaric by our standards. Belgium has the highest income tax of any OECD country. Finland is known for being emotionally cold. China is not a first world country. The whole "First, second and third" phrases came to be to describe a country's political alignment during the cold war. Since the soviet union is gone, the model doesn't make sense any more, which is why you now observe people talking about countries in terms of "developed," "undeveloped," and "western." My point in pointing all these things out? Just because a country with different culture, values, size, etc... does something does not prove we ought to follow suit.

Some more reading, which the anti-fluoride conspiracists won't look at because they have already made their mind up:

http://fluorideinfo.org/fluoride_claims-vs-facts.html

"Because their public water systems are both older and of smaller scale than those in the U.S., many European countries (e.g. Germany, France, Spain and Switzerland) find it more cost-effective to provide the cavity-fighting benefits of fluoridation by adding it to table salt (much the way iodine is added to salt in the U.S. to prevent goiter)."

And let's not forget what our friends at Quackwatch have to say about it.

http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/fluoride.html

I do agree there should be consideration of removing fluoride from our municipal water, but only as a cost saving measure since toothpaste already contains fluoride. I am hoping a decision like this would take into consideration the impact on the people in the community who for many reasons (impoverished, mentally ill, etc...) do not practice good oral hygiene.
Re: Cost?
Comment by Sheldon Davidson on 26th November 2011
Mike Philips; If it's as simple as it being good for your oral hygiene then why is it banned in countries like China, Belgium, Finland, Germany, Norway, Japan and other first world nations? Some of these countries even have better statistics than America for cavities per capita.

The study you point out is narrow and dated compared to world wide studies done by a wide variety of government and international organizations.

On July 29th, 2010 the UN declares clean water as a basic human right.

What of those who cannot afford to buy the expensive water distillation or reverse osmosis kits to remove the heavy metal from their water? Sodium Fluoride cannot be removed by boiling water as it does not evaporate; boiling fluorinated water just creates a higher concentration ratio of fluoride to water as the water evaporates. I believe our human rights are being infringed upon by not providing access to H2O.

It is wrong to assume that everyone would benefit from fluoridated water. What about those who have no teeth? What about the babies who have not yet developed teeth? How can you justify feeding a new born child sodium fluoride when they do not yet have teeth?

Why is it that sodium fluoride the only medicine that is administered through our water system?

What about when you shower? How does the heavy metal help my teeth when you bathe in it?

It simply does not make sense to put fluoride in municipal water supplies.

And who runs the CDC ...
Comment by getting old on 25th November 2011
CDC is run by the U.S. Government, I believe they have military connections as well.

But sure, read all about their vague reports, copy and paste them onto news sites and bulletin them boards, it's not going to make accurate.

Statistics are an amazing thing, did you know that 56.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot?

The CDC is one of the many organizations that have been covering up the serious hazards of fluoridated water. But that's not the only thing ...

Go ahead ... trust the CDC smart guy.

For anyone else interested, Google "CDC cover-up" ... you will find many results, most of them don't even concern fluoride at all.

The fact of the matter is this:

#1. Silicofluorides have never been tested for health and safety, and even the EPA admits it now has no information on the effects of "chronic exposure" to water treated with them.

#2. BRUSH YOUR OWN TEETH MORON!

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/02/22/epa-reverses-fluoride/
I am NOT Skep Dic
Comment by Christie Brown on 25th November 2011
LOL. It is always a good idea to be skeptical though - examine evidence.
City Costs
Comment by Sheldon Davidson on 25th November 2011
http://www.fluoridealert.org/Alert/Canada/British-Columbia/Terrace-may-stop-fluoridation.aspx

from that article:

"If fluoridation ends, Christiansen said, it would have saved the city around $24,000 a year - more than offsetting the $6,000 expected cost of the referendum."
Cost?
Comment by Mike Philips on 24th November 2011
Cost Savings of Community Water Fluoridation

Two published studies conducted by CDC reaffirm the benefits of community water fluoridation. Together, the studies continue to show that widespread community water fluoridation prevents cavities and saves money, both for families and the health care system. In fact, the economic analysis found that for larger communities of more than 20,000 people where it costs about 50 cents per person to fluoridate the water, every $1 invested in this preventive measure yields approximately $38 savings in dental treatment costs.

"An Economic Evaluation of Community Water Fluoridation"1 presents the results of an economic analysis of water fluoridation under modern conditions of widespread availability of fluorides. Researchers from CDC and Terry College of Business, University of Georgia, found that under typical conditions, the annual per-person cost savings in fluoridated communities ranged from $16 in very small communities (20,000). The analysis takes into account the costs of installing and maintaining necessary equipment and operating water plants, the expected effectiveness of fluoridation, estimates of expected cavities in non-fluoridated communities, treatment of cavities, and time lost visiting the dentist for treatment.

A related analysis found that children living in non-fluoridated communities in states that are highly fluoridated receive partial benefits of fluoridation from eating foods and drinking beverages processed in fluoridated communities. This second study, "Quantifying the Diffused Benefit from Water Fluoridation"2 reports that 12-year-old children living in states where more than half of the communities have fluoridated water have 26% fewer decayed tooth surfaces per year than 12-year-old children living in states where less than one-quarter of the communities are fluoridated.

And the BIG question to Mayor/Councillors
Comment by Maggie Jo on 24th November 2011
How MUCH does it cost the City (us) to pay for the flouride treatment in our City's water supply?

Figures please. (Tap, tap....waiting....)

Photocopies of publicized invoices would work too.

FFS, brush your teeth yourself.
Comment by S. P. Martini Esq. on 24th November 2011
Even if ANY of the pro-fluoride argument is valid, as Maggie-Jo pointed out .. brush your teeth yourself.

Regardless of the perceived benefits and/or harm that fluoride can cause ... It's 2011 !!! There is many brands of inexpensive toothpaste available, there is no reason for a modern civilized community to add fluoride to the municipal water supply.

/End.
Fluoride is toxic
Comment by Sheldon Davidson on 24th November 2011
Dispite the advocacy of fluoride in our water done by the one who chooses to remain anonymous (Skep Dic), the fact still remains that fluoride calcifies your pineal gland, makes people docile and causes all sorts of other really ill effects.

No amount of gobildy-gook done by Skep Dic can change the fact that what she (Skep Dic) says is pure propaganda.

I despise anyone who would advocate the fluoridation of our city water even if they are doing it as a joke.

Obviously a Communist Plot
Comment by James on 24th November 2011
From Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stope Worrying and Love the Bomb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHNYenN7OY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB5Vvs2cdqY
fluroide lulz indeed
Comment by Skep Dic on 24th November 2011
The Lee Foundation for Nutritional Research (now known as Standard Process, Inc), as featured on Quackwatch.

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/lee.html

The Lee foundation sell vitamins, again playing on people's fears to sell product.

And finally...

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/12/anti-fluoridation_crankery_how_1960s.php

More conspiracy theories on flouride
Comment by Skep Dic on 24th November 2011
Rene Descartes called the Pineal Gland the "seat of the soul," and he also lived over 350 years ago. Descartes was a philosopher and a devout Catholic. Rene Descartes did not think animals feel pain because he believed only humans have minds and lead to the wide use of vivisection on animals even though animals also have a pineal gland. This doesn't mean he was not a genius or a great contributor to science, philosophy or knowledge. It means he was not right about everything, and we should not always take the word of people who lived hundreds of years ago as fact.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pineal-gland/

Pay attention to section 3.3 Pseudo-Science in the above url.

It's easy to get on your conspiracy horse over flouride, but why not extend this fear a bit further.

Maybe iodine in salt is a conspiracy. If you google salt and iodine, you will find conspiracy theories which believe Iodine added to salt is a conspiracy.
Maybe vitamin D enrichment in milk is a conspiracy. If you google this, conspiracies also come up.
Maybe immunization is a conspiracy, too. Lots of people think it is.

Fluoride also occurs naturally in ground water in many parts of North America.

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/naturalhazards/en/index2.html

Fluorosis happens with excess flouride, it doesn't happen when WHO guidelines are followed. I don't know anyone who has it, do you?

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/diseases/fluorosis/en/

One thing you DO notice in nearly all the websites decrying fluoride use in drinking water, is they have books, videos, vitamins, hats, shirts, etc.... for sale. It's almost as if they run a business based on selling conspiracies and fear. Nah, that can't be it.
fluoride lulz
Comment by Anon on 24th November 2011
The implication that Charles E. Perkins never 'existed' is laughable .. (the Lee Foundation for Nutritional Research he wrote to is quite real.)

Well, for the simple-minded.. let us instead refer to people with Wikipedia pages in their name:

"Based on my years of practical experience in the health-food and chemical field, let me warn: fluoridation of drinking water is criminal insanity, sure national suicide. Don't do it.

Even in small quantities, sodium fluoride is a deadly poison to which no effective antidote has been found.

Every exterminator knows that it is the most efficient rat-killer. ... Sodium fluoride is entirely different from organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate needed by our bodies and provided by nature, in God's great providence and love, to build and strengthen our bones and our teeth.

This organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate, derived from proper foods, is an edible organic salt, insoluble in water and assimilable by the human body, whereas the non-organic sodium fluoride used in fluoridating water is instant poison to the body and fully water soluble. The body refuses to assimilate it.

Careful, bonafide laboratory experimentation by
conscientious, patriotic research chemists, and actual medical experience, have both revealed that instead of preserving or promoting 'dental health,' fluoridated drinking water destroys teeth, before adulthood and after, by the destructive mottling and other pathological conditions it actually causes in them, and also creates many other very grave pathological conditions in the internal organisms of bodies consuming it. How can it be called a "health" plan? What's behind it?

That any so-called "doctors" would persuade a civilized nation to add voluntarily a deadly poison to its drinking water systems is unbelievable. It is the height of criminal insanity.

-Dr. Emanuel H. Bronner ("Doctor", master soapmaker, self-proclaimed rabbi, mental hospital escapee, and, allegedly, Albert Einstein’s nephew.)
Re: Why not birth control in the water too?
Comment by Sheldon Davidson on 24th November 2011
Funny you should say this. Many prescription pills that get flushed down the toilet do not get removed during the city water filtering process.
Re: Tim
Comment by Sheldon Davidson on 24th November 2011
Tim has obviously never heard that fluoride causes fluorosis of the teeth.

It is a myth that fluoride helps teeth. There is absolutely no reason to put fluoride in drinking water.

When you drink water it goes into your stomach. I fail to see how fluoride in your stomach helps your teeth. It says right on the bottle of toothpaste that you should not swallow toothpaste.

Again, it's not the municipal governments job to be concerned with my oral hygiene. When I turn on the tap, I expect H2O, not a heavy metal that is more toxic than Pb and only slightly less toxic than arsenic.


Fluoride: lowering IQ's and damaging teeth
Comment by S. P. Martini Esq. on 24th November 2011
sick of people "whining" about poison in our water supply ? that's a good one.

why then, is Terrace one of the 7 or so communities left in BC that still insist on fluoridating the water?

Net benefit over 'risk' ?

Just brush your goddamn teeth Tim, the city isn't going to come clean your room either.

when you get past the 'hype'.... there is good scientific reasoning to cease all water fluoridation.

Have you ever heard of fluorosis ?

Ingesting chemically fluoridated water is not of any benefit to your teeth.

I suppose you would drink UV lotion if the government told you it prevented skin cancer.

As for the pineal gland, quoting wikipedia can be fun .. if you can't think for yourself..But let's try it ...

-The pineal gland was originally believed to be a "vestigial remnant" of a larger organ.

-The secretory activity of the pineal gland is only relatively understood

-René Descartes, who dedicated much time to the study of the pineal gland, called it the "seat of the soul." He believed that it was the point of connection between the intellect and the body.

"pineal gland regulates sleep patterns " is a statement made out of pure ignorance... 'regulating' sleep is actually one of the functions of the hypothalamus.