This exchange began after we were informed of racist and bigoted comments and pictures being posted on the Ethical Oil Facebook page. Four more screen shots from the facebook pictures and pages are attached below.
We copied all the pictures and some of the dialogue and then engaged directly with the members of this page to see if we could assist them in seeing things from a different point of view. Generally it was five different people who came out on the attack, taking turns. It was difficult to maintain composure but it was enjoyable to come to a conclusion which was generally peaceful and respectful. That is not how this two day exchange continued however. It was very revealing of the people who claim to be ethical, or supports of Ethical Oil.
What follows is three of these exchanges from beginning to end. The next article (posted above) is how two of us ended up seeing almost eye to eye. Debate can be heated but we must maintain respect.THE DEBATE BEGINS AND RAGES ON – ONE ON FIVEJohn Moffordhttp://www.fivefeetoffury.com/2012/01/ezra-levant-exposes-b-s-at-northern-gateway-hearings-is-banned-from-the-hearing-room/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Ezra Levant exposes b.s. at Northern Gateway hearings; is banned from hearing room (video) Five Fe www.fivefeetoffury.com Merv Ritchie
I watched this video clip and it is full of misrepresentations. Firstly it wasn't Sun News that was banned, it was every single camera, still and video. Sun News was not targeted. It has so far been the only session where a specific presenter has requested this. Second, these are sworn testimony sessions called Intervener Hearings. The first set of hearings were for gathering infomation on what they should include in their deliberations. Now this set of sworn hearings is underway. The next set will be the "4000 plus" people who just want to have their say, not under oath. Ezra was not being fair or accurate in his presentation of the facts.Merv Ritchie
Did you delete my comment exposing this video presentation as inaccurate? I detailed how all media were excluded, not just Sun. All still and video cameras were denied access for this single presentation, I further detailed the JRP process and explained how Ezra was misrepresenting the facts. Are you now playing censorship games? Merv Ritchie
Too funny! Our staff is laughing at how you deleted our comments again. Just can't handle Ezra being exposed for blatant lies eh? The emperor has no clothes!John Mofford
Are you drunk or high? Are you talking to yourself, or John Mofford, or an imaginary Facebook boogeyman after your civil rights? So many questions, so few answers.Merv Ritchie
Nice to see them back again, thanks!John Mofford
Jeezus you are a kook. Talking to imaginary people is messed up.Sheila Gunn
"Our staff" is laughing? So crazy IS catchy? Doug Ramsay
smerv i would love to know what you and your staff do? the way you though out "our staff" sounds like you own a busniness. I WANT TO SHUT IT DOWN. i am sure your company leaves no environmental foot print. i am sure you and your staff dont produce anything we couldnt live without.Merv Ritchie
So this has what to do with Ezra picking up a microphone and distorting the truth? Every once in a while someone on this site engages in polite respectful debate, but not often.Doug Ramsay
just answer the question. your messing with alot of peoples lives. would love to see the shoe on the other foot for a while.Sheila Gunn
Read that allowed before you send it Merv, maybe it will sound crazy to and you wont send it... "Ezra picking up a micro phone and distorting the truth'? This is why people dont like these hearings....people -endless ridiculous amount of people- who have no real business at the microphone are jamming up these hearings when they could be a stream lined efficient and effective process without having every card carrying kook needing a turn at the podium.Sheila Gunn
aloud..not allowedMerv Ritchie
Doug, we run five news services in the Northwest. Attend all political meetings and cover the local and regional issues. We run a classifieds and event service. Although the population is quite small around here, maybe 50 to 60,000 from Burns Lake to Haida Gwaii, we are the main source for the community to communicate. There are other services as well, Radio TV and newspaper, we focus on the web. We are not messing with lives we are providing information and a medium for the community to talk to each other. We allow all points of view which has made us the most frequented sites west of Prince George.Doug Ramsay
really smerv. so your a smaller version of CBC. just wondering how much of your budget comes from you on your knees begging for tax dollars comes from fort mac? always crying that you dont get enough of someone elses money. i bet your ass you dont turn that down. guys like you make me sick and to tell you the truth it doesnt shock me in the least. your a sponge will always be a sponge.Merv Ritchie
Doug, I was riding horses in Irricana before you were born. My Uncle ran the post office there, maybe you knew him? Like you I imagine, I grew up learning how to work hard and take nothing I didn't earn. Our services get no money from anyone except those advertisers who place their business ads on our sites. We do not use google ads either, straight forward hard ass business. If we do not do our job we get nothing. Advertisers advertise because we provide a good service. We always turn down money that is unethical. We will never compromise our integrity. And the name is Merv Doug. I do not attempt to insult you please return the kindness.Doug Ramsay
i find that hard to believe that you take no tax money. its a slippery move that is always done by the left. but if you say so it must be true. not like you to bullshit us ever. ohhh and nice touch with the horse thing. lolSheila Gunn
hes trying to be familiar..its not workingDoug Ramsay
your right sheila, its like he thinks his uncle is some sort of local hero and me being from the area i would know him. i still think marv is first in line at the post office at the beginning of the month waiting for a sub check.Chuck Rockwell
Just because somebody has a News Business doesn't mean it's right. It's only your opinion when a story is published. Facts are distorted many times with news stories. Leave the word NOT out of a sentence and it changes the view of the story.Doug Ramsay
right on chuckDoug Ramsay
there is a difference between reporting the news and giving your opinionMerv Ritchie
Yes, and Ezra and Paul Stanway are masters in the media. Paul has been doing this for decades and Ezra is is puppeteer. Very little in the media is unbiased, I'll give you that. But attacking people viciously simply for having a different point of view is completely wrong. The only end result of that is what they have in China, you get taken to jail for promoting democracy. And this is the point here. You are calling yourselves Ethical Oil attempting to sell the product raw, wholesale to the most vile and un ethical country. This is not really biased, is it? Am I saying something everyone on the planet doesn't know? Tell me you think China is ethical for killing and jailing peaceful pro democracy protesters!PART TWO OF DEBATE WITH ETHICAL OIL FACEBOOK FRIENDSRoy Whitney
Another reason why the First Nations will eventually agree.
Seems my earlier comment should have been, "Protests will eventually fall on the deaf ears of the Canadian Military enforcing the PM's orders"
Harper to use Military Force: Titanic clash looms over proposed Northern Gateway pipeline - IT and
More than 4,000 people are expected to appear before the three-member panel vetting the proposed Northern Gateway pipeline from Alberta through the Rockies to the B.C. coast.Merv Ritchie
This title is misleading, no where in the article does it refer to Harper planning to use the military.Chuck Rockwell
This kind of attitude stinks. What military force? Misleading tactics again Roy Whitney
"Harper to use Military Force:" is at the top of this link but removed from The Star headline. Wishful thinking perhaps. Doug Ramsay
not sure what your point is roy. i could be wrong but i never seen anything about the military in this piece. whats your angle????Greg Sr Craig
Merv has all ready proven that he knows so much about the military that you should listen to him. He wasn't in the military, but he knows what my duties were, just ask him.Sheila Gunn
That's very funny GregDoug Ramsay
carefull greg, he was riding a pony before you were born. of couse he knows allSheila Gunn
And trudeau put the saddle on it for him....Merv Ritchie
You three are too funny, I love a good yarn. Nope Doug, it was you I was riding 'an old mare' before you were born. Right near where you went to school, I know diddly squat about Greg except what he claims here on facebook. So far all his rhetoric is pretty hollow. I claim very little about "knowing so much about the military" but this is how bullies try to excite people. Real honourable soldiers do not behave so childishly. I suspect he is nothing more than a teenage troll with acne. And Sheila, when Alberta goes through another bust you might understand what Trudeau was attempting. Lougheed was trying the same thing but your successive reform/conservatives threw all that away.Greg Sr Craig
Well you sure seem excited to explain how the military's only purpose was peace keeping and search and rescue and how we had no real other purpose. Guess you don't notice those F18's that show up in Comox every time a Russian Bear buzzes the west coast, even to this day. Maybe the Russians are there to help with search and rescue??Sheila Gunn
Merv, please you keep talking and seem more like a know nothing than a know it all. We just came out the other side of a pretty serious bust actually and we are still doing better than ever...so I will be just fine. I am not a little girl, quit talking to me like that, paternalistic and weird. And arent those " horrible reform/conservatives on track to get our deficit in check? the numbers out today said the numbers were 9 billion better than expected...of course the bloated civil service will be mad about that, but as their end game employer...I dont so much give a damn.Merv Ritchie
I distinctly remember the F16's. (18's were after my time) They came in low towards the high bluffs on the coast, then popped up rising just above the altitude of the base thundering overhead. Everything shook. It was always a pleasure to watch. So were the planes stationed there. Always warmed up and ready to go. The flames of the exhaust could be seen coming out the back of the hanger as the plane was launching airborn in front of the hanger. Oh, and Greg, I never said the military had "no other real purpose" You truly could not have achieved an officer position. You need to have comprehension and the ability to keep your facts straight for that role.Merv Ritchie
Now I am playing your ethical silly game, how's it feel?Merv Ritchie
Un ethical bullies.Greg Sr Craig
Well Merv, perhaps you're showing your age or just your real lack of knowledge of the Canadian forces.
Canada has never flown the F16.
Perhpas you meant the CF 101-Vood-Doo or the C F 116 Freedom fighter, known by it's Canadian designation as CF-5?
Both of which flew out of Comox at one time or another.
But what do I know?
Please continue to educate me about the armed forces that I served in for 25 years.Greg Sr Craig
I have no problem with your comments Merv, and I assume that you will stand by your more slanderous comments that I will send in to the local Cold Lake Courier, voice of the CF in Cold Lake, so that you can repeat some of your more incredible slander to. I'm sure as a reputable on-line newspaper guy that you'll be okay with this?Sheila Gunn
Im forwarding them onto the SentinelBlair Gott
F-16 is a yankee plane genius, try again. Remember the voodoos at Comox Greg, just a big ass engine with a seat LOLGreg Sr Craig
Or Maybe he was thinking of the odd CF-104 (widowmaker) Starfighter, that would stop by. Big shiny lawn darrts.Blair Gott
THATs the one I'm thinkin of Where were the wings on that thing ! LOLSheila Gunn
If you cant find 'em ask Merv, he knows everything....Merv Ritchie
Hi, I'm back, bought a big ol 4x8 sheet of plywood for my new sign for all the names you want to call me. Remember the word comprehension? I was directly stating F16's because I was talking about, if you read it properly, the Americans storming the Base. They did this regularly to rest our radar skills at detecting them.Merv Ritchie
They also stationed there as we used to store nukes on the base.Sheila Gunn
hi youre back...from deleting your old posts? its ok, we screen captured themGreg Sr Craig
Maybe he'd like a copy of his comments about soldiers in Afghanistoan all being hi on opium?Sheila Gunn
like I said, Patricia Braun, silver cross mother, would love to hear the sentiment expressed by someone who would diminish and slander her son who bravely died in 2006 as a junkie, party animal.Sheila Gunn
remember conscription? her son was not conscripted, he volunteered to serve humanity and he dies for it, for you MERV you ridiculous ungrateful coward. Take that plywood and build a box t o hide you and your shame in.Sheila Gunn
oh disappeared? thats a brave fighter for democracy right thereMerv Ritchie
I never delete a thing, I am proud of it all. You people never address a real issue, just name call. Come on Greg the proclaim soldier, I want to hear you defend China and their stomping on democracy and civil rights, swear it is true on the souls of the dead Canadian sevicemen and women. And you too Sheila, you defend Greg like he has a purple cross yet he and you are willing to help prop up the worst country on record. Even CSIS has exposed them for infiltrating our governments, hacking into our computer mainframes, stealing secrets etc etc. I despise people who claim to be defenders of Canada when they sell it out behind our backs. Greg, fly back to Afghanistan and kill another thousand women and children so you can help increase the opium exports. Stop being uninformed. You are online all day, do some real reading, some real research. Stop being the tool of Ezra.Merv Ritchie
I wasn't laughing when I wrote that, your stupidity and proclamations of being a real soldier just made me mad. How dare you trash our forces!Sheila Gunn
uh huhGreg Sr Craig
What, me -" How dare you trash our forces!"
Or were you apologizing for yourself?
Can't be me. I have the medals and scars, what do you have?Sheila Gunn
a plywood door?Blair Gott
Merv has his computer and a bad attitude.Sheila Gunn
bang on Blair...he deleted his post about the perils of tankers that had all his most slanderous garbage on it..the brave defender of democracy he isBlair Gott
MERV Dont worry about me being a tool for EZRA, an actual journalist and author unlike yourself..if I were you, Id worry about just being a plain old TOOLSheila Gunn
and he keeps using WE and OUR when he talks about the military..like he was a service man...but he wasnt and I believe masquerading as one is a crime...not just against good taste but a criminal code infraction, like the wearing of medals you did not earn. I spend a lot of time at the grocery store...doesnt mean Im a cashier tho, now does it?Merv Ritchie
Sheila, you mentioned earlier you were taking screen shots. Could you please provide one of the page you say was deleted? As I said I never delete anything. All my writings from 2006 are still online, even those I might think differently about now. As for the tankers, I likely wrote about what is called the "State of the Art" I reference the renowned expert on tankers, he started the website, "The Center for Tankship Excellence" and describes the perils of the North Pacific and how a tanker built today has only a "Stresslife" of two voyages, such that the Cosco Yokohama endured last weekend when it lost 29 containers off its deck. But please send me the screen shot so I can reference it. I never slandered anyone. I relate factual information. This sometimes disturbs psychopaths. Not that I am calling anyone that here on this site. It is just another fact.YET MORE DEBATING WITH ETHICAL OILERSJohn Mofford
Sounds even better!
Tories to overhaul energy hearings
Ottawa is moving quickly to mandate expedited reviews of new industrial projects in Canada.Jeremy Bunch
It's about time!Merv Ritchie
Yeah these damn hearings, same goes for the House of Commons and Parliament in Ottawa, what a waste of time! Same with the UN and the Senate, same with the Supreme Court, they just get in our damn way, damn dissidents. Where the hell is Chairman Mao and Stalin when you need them?John Mofford
swerving merv, blindin' us with knowledge once more. sad.Sheila Gunn
Merv, are you defending "mob the mike"?Sheila Gunn
OR mic?Merv Ritchie
No. But I defend democracy just like, (Can I quote you?) our brave men and women died defending in the world wars. Process, democracy can be difficult at times but I will fight to the death, like my grandfather was prepared to do in the First World War, to maintain our freedom to argue against our governing bodies. Currently the Conservative government under their leader Stephen Harper is acting much more dictatorial than diplomatic. I am registered to speak as well. I did the last time the JRP was in the NW arguing about the scope of their review. This time I will put in my two cents on the issues I think are most relevant, the best economic interests of Canada. Hundreds of us are doing this because it is the right thing to do. before anyone starts to fight, we best begin by talking. maybe we can resolve our issues. We do not need another communist or fascist state. Democracy can be hard work. I belong to no group and no one paid me and no one told me what to do. But I am completely opposed to this project. My government wants to refer to me as an enemy? Because I disagree with it? And now it wants to take away my right to be heard? What craziness is this?Sheila Gunn
You can oppose all you want, no one is putting you in jail for that. Thats nothing but ridiculous and inflammatory hyperbole to suggest that OUR DEMOCRATICALLY elected government borders on the fascist because they have rightfully labelled you as a time burglar. For shame.Democracy can be hard work...especially when you diminish the role of the people who fought for it for you...willing to die for it? put your fatigues on and go fight in some sandy shit hole them like Greg did.Dont prowl all over a facebook page being cloise and smug and then have the audacity to say..."we can resolve our issues, we best be talking."...it ends up coming off as CONDESCENDING!Merv Ritchie
This is just history repeating itself. America has been steadily losing their democracy over the last couple decades and Harper is attempting to catch up. We must stand up for each other as citizens, not fight each other. That is why I stay on this web page, attempting to find some light and understanding. show those who visit here that not all Canadians are that angry and close minded. I am sorry if you think I sound condescending. I suppose I could say that same thing when people like John calls people names and attempts to ridicule. Isn't that condescending? I try not to do that. I am not a time burglar. My Presentation at the JRP September 2010 was unique, on point and important. I posted a link to it. did you read it? I was not encouraging stopping the Tarsands or the shipping of the product. I was offering suggestions of a better way. If you didn't read it here it is again. http://www.terracedaily.ca/show8847a27s0x300y1z/MERV_RITCHIE_ON_ENBRIDGE_AND_THE_JOINT_REVIEW_PANEL
Like I said, I do not think fighting each other is productive. Talking about ideas is.John Mofford
Please stop the embarrassing attempts at promoting your online "news" rag here. "If you didn't read it here it is again.". No one wants to read your drivel! Can't you go look for more viewers/readers somewhere else? Is this really your best attempt at drumming up search results? Its so funny & sad at the same time. But more sad than funny.Sheila Gunn
There it is, I knew it was coming...the anti american sentimentSheila Gunn
What are Tar Sand?...there it is, the anti oil sands sentiment..this isnt about a refinery, you can sell that rotten apple somewhere else, I can see through the whole " reconciliation and let me show Alberta a better way" garbage..we all canMerv Ritchie
Okay; In two parts, On August 31, 2010, I addressed the Joint Review Panel in Kitimat. My presentation is on record and I have copied it in full below. I am registered to address the Panel when it reconvenes again in the region.
My opinion has not changed from this presentation to today. The only addendum I would add is on the refining and the tankers.
First, the Tarsands/Oilsands (what ever the company wishes to call the product), must be refined at the source, in Alberta, near to the mines. This will make any potential spill a less toxic and hazardous mess. Further, if it is eventually transported by pipe, the product would be less corrosive to the interior walls of the pipe, by a factor of 16 according to recent reports.
Second, on the tankers. My position is the product must be shipped containerized, just like the Cosco containers, but double skinned. The bunker fuel for these tankers must also be in the same style of container. This would help prevent a similar disaster to what is occurring in New Zealand today. It is the fuel for the tanker that is leaking, not the cargo. And still with the tankers, their construction today versus the 1970's construction model is comparable to our cars and trucks. The frames are weaker and the steal is much thinner. The "state of the art" is a tragedy of cost reduction. —HERE I COPIED AND PASTED THE ENTIRE WRITING FROM THE LINK ABOVE TO SAVE THE ETHICAL OILERS FROM HAVING TO VISIT THE TERRACE DAILY WEBSITE--John Mofford
I can't believe how pathetic you are swervin' merv. you poor lonely soul.Merv Ritchie
Now you don't have to visit our new service, stay with the open mined sun news you so frequently link too. Good solid unbiased News.John Mofford
so very strange & sad.Sheila Gunn
John go and read his other comments on my posts...it is sad. He accused Greg of being on a party when he was serving our nation and the defence of democracy ..because someone told him so...John Mofford
So pathetic. I almost feel bad for this person, so attention starved & ignorant. Attempting to have his horrible site indexed higher by tricking people in to visiting it.Sheila Gunn
Im gonna just start posting random skype conversations with my husband to his facebook page..they will be as meaningless and long as the stuff he puts on here..Ii promiseMerv Ritchie
There, I simply addressed your concern, (not directing you to our website), so you could read my concerns, the issues, and now you are right back to juvenile name calling. I did not accuse anyone of being on a Party. I stated what was reported back to me about those stationed in Germany. No military service is a party, it is comradeship. We work together, trust each other and have fun together. Truly a Canadian way. Like the true hard working Albertans, not the name callers we find here.Doug Ramsay
smerv the united states is not a democracy. they are a republic. if they would get back to what there law says they will be fine. they just need to punt the progressive left out.Sheila Gunn
WE work together?Merv Ritchie
The USA has not been a Republic for generations. Haven't you heard John Waynes Republic speech? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46ThlxkQOEk
The text reads like this - "
Republic. I like the sound of the word. It means people can live free, talk free, go or come, buy or sell, be drunk or sober, however they choose." Now does this sound like your Country? It isn't a democracy either. But that might take more time and links to fully explain.Doug Ramsay
merv, again your full of shit. they are a republic.Doug Ramsay
no matter how hard your progressives try to change the world. one day the provider class will finaly say enough of you sponges.John Mofford
Well said Doug.Merv Ritchie
It is why Ron Paul is running, he wants to "Restore the Republic". You seem to be living in the 1800's. Why not read some of Ron Pauls information then report back on what you learn.Doug Ramsay
merv why does the kookie left always run to ron paul? the only thing you like about him is anti war yet 4 of the last 6 wars the usa was in was entered by a Democrat president? just get out of the way and take your free money. your just a pain in the ass. take what you get and go ride your pony. or you can always help out and get a real jobDoug Ramsay
carefull what ron paul says. he can have some wacked out thoughts. but i am sure wise merv knows all about that. but merv just picks and chooses what he likes and wants to hear. thats how a joker like obama got electedJoe Stirling
Merv, have your found any experts in the field asking the same questions about using sealed rail containers? It's an interesting idea.Merv Ritchie
Jeezus Doug, what was that all about? I was simply making a point on the USA not being a Republic anymore (they basically do not follow their constitution) and you run off at the mouth about politics and wars and your perception on my political leanings. I see the only reasonable conversation on this site is the last one between Greg Sr and I.. Does this site only like people fighting on it?Merv Ritchie
Joe, CN has a great site explaining their capacity. No one that I know of has promoted the concept of detachable stackable double skinned tankers that I suggest we convert to. It would be an expense but an easily recoverable one and an environmental necessity.